so just the soap gets rid of it? I can only find the face cream online... Should I just use the soap and that will help it? or do I need lotion as well?

is the soap all we need really?

OMG! This sounds exactly like me!!!!!!!!
Maybe there is hope for me too!!!!!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I'll try that and let you know the results.

I feel the soap is the most helpful part of the treatment. But, the soap alone did not work for me. When i added the shampoo and face cream I could totally feel the difference, especially on my head. And the shampoo totally changed my hair too- made it all light and fluffy- whereas it was limp and oil before. I dont know the science behind this, but it seems like the sea buckthorn oil has a drying affect. The mite lives off the oil produced in the hair follicles- so perhaps sea buckthorn dries up the mites source of food, and that is what kills it. Another option I considered trying was just buying sea buckthorn oil and adding it to a daily bath. That was going to be my next step if the soap,shampoo, and face cream didnt work. I would recommend starting out with the soap, and if that doesnt work, then try adding the shampoo, and the face cream. I think the face cream is the least important of the three, but it did keep my face from drying out. Beyond KP I though I had some horrible body acne, which in reality was just the mites attacking me so badly that it was infecting some of my pores. Good luck to you- and post back to let me know how it goes.

im sorry but this whole thing sounds like bull ****. i dont think everyone who has KP has a parasite... and OP is a myth look it up it dont do jack ****.

kp is a horrible thing, but try to stay optimistic. There is obviously a cause, and obviously a cure- but who knows for sure what either are. For me it appears to have been this mite. I put it out there for others to see because I know how miserable kp is. I know how ashamed I was for others to see it the whole time I was growing up. Wanting to wear a tank top in hot weather but fearing somebody would see it and comment. So I roasted myself every summer growing up. Then seeing is spread even worse as an adult. I just want others to know it could be a mite, and it could be cured like mine. I dont expect it to cure everyone, but hopefully it will help someone besides myself.

Oh alias3r, you wrote this just in time for a rant I've been working on for a couple of weeks! thank you for inspiration. (I can't seem to get this onto skeptics forum so I give kebod and MollyBloom permission to use any and all of this info and links in posts there.)

Demodex mites are very common (ubiquitous) in people but don't always cause skin problems. Heady stuff but here's a descrip about a study where mice lacking a certain genetic makeup react worse to demodex: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/...0/demodex.html

Also, you could check the links from wikipedia or something for more understanding.

Regarding people's claims of "unproven" methods, one might consider things like parents' arguments that mercury in vaccine triggered their child's autism and on the other side, vaccination companies denying those claims as simple "anecdotal" evidence. Turns out the parents were probably right as most autistic kids lack the enzymes to process heavy metals and therefore those kids had adverse reactions to the mercury in the vaccines.
http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/thimerosal.php

http://www.ewg.org/reports/autism/execsumm.php

Traditional medicines are sometimes proven to be true by western research standards. It's as if there becomes too much anecdotal evidence for western med to ignore and so they run their own tests; or in the case of ginseng, some research group thinks they can patent a standard dosage of an herb and thereby make a buck off of it.

Ginseng, an herb (or root) that some might say has "mythical" properties, has been found to boost antibodies, a particular bonus in response to vaccinations:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t_uids=8879982

Other ginseng uses, Mayo gives it a B (as in a standard grading system) for modestly improving thinking and several human studies report that ginseng may lower blood sugar levels in patients with type 2 diabetes.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/gin...atient-ginseng

Flaxseed and Ginseng show benefit in cancer treatment:

http://www.asco.org/portal/site/ASCO...reutersid=6635

Based on these types of research, one could thoughtfully look at OP from a more open minded position especially considering that sublingual absorption of many compounds is more efficient than digestive absorption. (Our skin can even absorb medicines. Aspirin can be rubbed directly on pains and absorb)

Sublingual nitrate is used to stop chest pains related to heart attacks:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dru...ation/DR602137

Oh, those quacks at Mayo Clinic! what snake oil will they come up with next!

And ask them to spread the word that sublingual B-12 is impossible and couldn't _possibly_ be better than taking a vitamin that will mostly be destroyed by stomach acids; and tell them to toss out the sublingual melatonin and sublingual CoQ10 for migraines and sublingual tobacco...okay, maybe that's not used medicinally.

"The absence of evidence does not mean the evidence of absence."

Oil pulling (I prefer to call it oil swishing) has relieved me of tooth sensitivities, some chronic aches from repetitive strain and contusions, eased my chronic sinus congestion and increased my libido that I thought was waning in middle age. I don't particularly believe the toxin pulling argument that proponents push but I can easily imagine, due to the broad application of sublingual administration of vitamins and medicines, that I'm getting essential fatty acids and nutrients of which I didn't even know I was deficient. It may be that something is happening there that has not been studied and until the Sunflower Growers Association puts up some money for research, we may never see research. Or else someone will patent a compound in sesame oil that is the anti-inflammatory (search in PubMed, sesame oil reduces liver inflammation in certain diseases...)

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublingual

"In theory, sublingual routes of administration have certain advantages over simple oral administration. This route is often faster, and entering a drug into one's body sublingually ensures that the substance will only come in contact with the enzymes in saliva prior to entry into the bloodstream. Drugs otherwise orally administered must instead survive the incredibly hostile environment of the gastrointestinal tract. This may mean a much greater percentage of the original substance is degraded either by the myriad of enzymes in the GI tract, such as monoamine oxidase, or the strong acids it contains. Additionally, after GI absorption, the drug is sent to the liver where the drug may be extensively metabolized; this is known as the first pass effect of drug metabolism. Due to the degradative qualities of the stomach and intestine, or the solubility of the GI tract, certain substances, such as salvinorin A may only be administered orally via the sublingual route. Because of its size and relative fragility, salvinorin A cannot pass the GI tract intact and must instead be absorbed across a mucous membrane."

My prior knowledge of sublingual administration and ongoing research of sublingual meds (opiates are big in current sublingual research since saliva already contains natural opiates) kept my mind open to OP and I'm very glad as it has improved the quality of my life mightily includng improvements in my skin condiition. And if someday someone give us some evidence that it pulls toxins too, well, I'll simply be pleasantly surprised and curious as to the mechanisms.

- bd
p.s. check my post re: chamomlie also. I put it in baronster's thread as Chamomile has anti-inflammatory properties that western med is exploring.

I am trying to be optimistic about this one, but it seems unlikely that any significant number of KP cases will be fixed with anti-mite treatments. They have studied KP and not found a reliable correlation with this mite, though it has been proven to aggravate some skin conditions. I think it's worth trying, though. It's a pretty easy treatment whether topical or oral. I would go the dermatologist/doc route and get something to kill the disgusting things directly rather than buying the expensive name brand products. (As a rule I love nature, but parasitic life forms are a whole other thing!!)
So, kudos to pattirob because maybe a few people will be helped by this, but I wouldn't get people's hopes up, either. I have ordered some sea buckthorn oil capsules and will give it a try as a supplement and see what happens.

As for oil pulling, it does affect the body in a positive way overall and can yield some neat and healthful results. However, its curative properties about KP are WAY overstated in the oil pulling thread and need to be tempered, though I think the lack of photographic evidence speaks for itself.

I don't think it makes any statement about holistic or herbal remedies in general. Some work, some don't. Sadly, western culture does tend to disregard the potential merits of these things, and their effect on KP is unresearched, to say the least. We need to experiment with them ourselves and gather our own data to make a fair analysis. If KP is *not* a genetically damning disease (the evidence points to this, but I still hope not sometimes...), it could be that it's caused by something very specific and curable that is just undiscovered yet because we're too closed-minded to see it. It could even be something that's been right in front of us all along.

In conclusion, anything easy is worth trying. I don't think any of the recent proposals of causes or cures have been correct (why can't anyone produce *clear* evidence in photos that these things work?), but we must persevere and not give in to failure and narrow thinking.

(Yes, I'm quoting myself.)

As usual, your attention to detail is exceptional and unparalleled, turquois! Are you going to use the capsules in place of some other EFA supplement, e.g. fish oil or flax? I look forward to your report on this since I know you'll be as rigorous as possible in trying it out. From where'd you obtain the capsules?

I'm also not convinced that demodex mites would make up the majority of KP causes amongst the people who post on all these forums; But I'm still intrigued by sea buckthorn after reading about it. As I said, I'm wondering if it might just be an excellent topical treatment for some KP sufferers. Perhaps it's superior to others in balancing out the microbe colonies that live on some of our skin(s)? who knows? Even people around here who don't ascribe to topical techniques for curing KP have their favorite moisturizers for their skin and they have their reasons why. I noticed that Aubrey Organics has a sea buckthorn line (with no mention of demodex cures in their lit). I may try the lotion and all that implies... - bd

Hello Bunny!
Always nice to see you around.

I got a 500 Capsule bottle at ebay for a total of $35 (including shipping) from Russia. It says "100% natural Sea Buckthorn seed oil capsules." It seems to be available from a lot of different online herbal and supplement places, though.

I'll try it as a supplement in place of the Flax and Fish oil caps I've been taking, at least for a few weeks. Then I may start taking everything at once. We'll see. As you mentioned its properties, it may be a better oil all around than any of the others, and it appears to be specifically indicated for skin conditions, moreso than the others are.
It does seem to be largely untested for KP, so that is reason enough to go for it. Unlike the fish oil and flaxseed, which a lot of people have tried and have minimal success with. Even I'm getting a little restless about them.

I am going for a chemical effect of it rather than a deliberate attempt to kill the mites. If I don't see any result from this, I think I will start looking into specific mite-killing stuff like ivermectin or maybe Elimite. I also have rosacea, and demodex has been implicated there to some degree, so it's worth a try.

KP is so under-researched that at this point I'm ready to try almost anything just to see what happens and be able to say with confidence that I have some hard, firsthand data on it. Like with Oil Pulling; that turned out to be a worthwhile experiment and yielded specific info that is really hard to glean from all of the posts around here. I'm sure you've noticed this, too, the difficulty in concluding anything based on other people's posts.

Where do you get sea buckhorn oil? How do you ultimately rid yourself of the dermdex parasite? Where do we pick up the dermodex parasite?
Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

I purchased sea buckthorn products from a health food store in the area I live. If the stores in your area dont carry it, it is readily available through various companies on the internet. As I understand it, it is normal for demodex mites to live on humans or pets. So its easy to pick them up from people you live closely with, or your by petting animals. They can't live for very long away from a host, so its unlikely you can get them from sheets, clothes, etc. For unknown reasons, some persons cannot tolerate them as well, such as myself.

Pattirob,
Thanks for all your advice. I will try the sea buckthorne oil to see if I can rid my KP. Is the actual parasite called demodex folliculorum? Is this an allergy to the parasite?

Here is a site I found helpful for some summary info about the mite. It might give you some leads for more research about it. The site also has products which I did not order from. But I found the information insightful. From what I have learned, the skin is reacting to an overpopulation of the mite (a combination of trying to build up a defense against the mite and the mite burrowing into hair follicles -hence the red spots and bumps). The skin is unable to fight off the overpopulation of the mite due to genetic dispositions relating to a persons immune system. Normally, (and in people who dont have kp) the immune system should stop the mite from getting out of control. This is the theory anyways.

http://www.jashbotanicals.com/articl...liculorum.html

pattirob...
i was a lurker before but saw ur post and did some research...and then i bought some of the soap from Aubrey organics since i figure it cant hurt to try right! its been 2 weeks and i am slowly breaking out more in areas where i do have hair. my face a little more broken out but its not very bad, but my hair on my head starting too, like a few bumps on the back of my head, i have really long hair... and this may be tmi but so did my pubic area, i wash my whole body with the soap...im curious did this happen to you as well? i take 2 showers a day with this soap and am considering adding in the shampoo. how long did the "break out" last and then how long till u saw real results. sorry soo many questions but any advice will be soo great. thanks