Hi, I have had KP on my upper arms, legs and thighs for about 10 years (I'm 27 now) and recently, within the past 2 years or so, my face has been almost permantly red. I don't have any bumps on face, just redness. The redness is mostly concentrated directly under my eyes and as the day goes on it gets redder on my cheeks and above my eyelids. When i am at home i constantly have a fan on my face, because if not i get extremely hot and red. The fan helps to cool me and usually reduces the redness, but as soon as i go out somewhere i can feel it getting hot and red again. I can't do anything physical without getting extremely flushed, even golfing with a cart will make me extremely red and hot. This has also hurt my overall health because i tend to shy away from physical activities because of the embarassment of have a beet red face. I am not sure if this is KPRF because i don't have any bumps on my face or if it is roseacea? Just wondering if anyone had similar symptoms or an idea of what it might be or knew of anything that could help it.

Thanks

TS,

Have you seen a doctor concerning your overheating? This sounds like a question that may be out of the realm of KP. If you see a doctor, please let us know what he/she says. Can anyone here else help TS?

kebod

__________________
My treatment: Oil pulling daily; candida diet (minimum of carbs, no sugars); omega-3 from canned salmon and sardines; sun exposure 10-15 minutes, 3 days a week, without sunblock; program to strengthen immune system; probiotic supplements; lots of water; moderate daily exercise; exfoliation with epsom salts and sugar several times a week. KP reduced 99%. If I go "off diet" -- grains, sugars, etc. -- or stop oil pulling, KP returns.

Hi TS can I ask you some questions (some of them might seem a bit random but there is a reason!)

Have you ever been on Accutane (usually prescribed for acne)?

When you say it is red above your eyelids do you mean your eyebrows? - if so is the redness more on the outer third of the brow? and is there any hair loss in that area?

The redness on your cheeks is it mainly at the top? and does it go from your temple across to your nose (dipping more as it gets nearer the nose?)

Has the KP on your body got worse in the last 2 years?

Does the red area on your cheeks feel a different texture that the areas that aren't red?

I look forward to hearing your replies.

regards
Anne

Thanks for the responses kebod and anne. To answer your question kebod, no I haven't seen my doctor yet regarding this issue, but i do plan on making an appointment soon. And Anne';

Yes I have been on accutane, i did 2 cycles i believe in maybe 2001-2002. So it was quite some time ago.

The redness above my eyelids is located in the area between my eyeborws and my eyelids, there is no redness in my eyebrows.

The most intense redness is on the upper part of my cheeks, not really along the temples but moreso right underneath my eyes. It's like where ppl get bags under their eyes, thats kind of what it looks like, red bags under my eyes. It starts from my nose and goes across to almost the outer edges of my eyes. Like i said in the orignal post, as the day goes on it spreads further down my cheeks, although this area doesn't get as intensely red as below my eyes.

It's hard to say if my KP has gotten worse in the past two years. I don't know if I could say it has because it has always been fairly bad. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it or not, but my KP is more bumpy than red.

The red areas on my face feels the same as the other areas on my face, if not smoother. Like i said there are no bumps, dryness or scaliness. It definately feels hotter though!

I have read on threads in here regarding flushing or blushing or KPRF that ppl seem to either have it all the time with bumps or that the redness is brought on by social situations and anxiety. Mine will diminish if if i keep it cool, like with a fan, and although my face does go red in social situations it also gets unbearably hot and red if i go to my parents for dinner of if i'm at home just watching tv (without a fan on of course), hardly stressful situations. So yeah, I'm confused to say the least.

Thanks

TS

mmmmm...very confusing

The reason I asked all those random questions above is that there are a couple of rare keritinization disorders that effect the upper cheeks and the eyebrows.

I will give you the names if you want to investigate them yourself. From the answers you gave above I am really not sure what you have but may be worth mentioning these to your Derm when you go to one, since you also have bad KP.

1) ulerythema ophryogenes - affects the outer eyebrows causing redness and hairloss but you would expect some KP bumps to be in the area

2) atrophoderma vermiculata (aka KPAF (keratosis pilaris atrophicans faciei) - this affects the upper cheeks and occurs on both cheeks - if left to run its course it results in pitting of the cheeks and permanent redness.

What is unusual is that you would have expected both of these conditions to appear around age 17 when your KP appeared. However lately there have been a few people on these site that have developed the above after being on accutane (strangely accutane is the only thing proven at present to bring these condtions into remission). However the time span between being on accutane and your symptoms developing would suggest it may not have had anything to do with it.

Your condition is obviously very troublesome and is affecting you so you should arrange to see a dermatologist to sort out what is going on.

Just thought of a couple of more questions -
1) is your skin naturally fair? - are you of Celtic descent (irish/scottish)?
2) has anyone in your family ever had anything similar?
3) when the area gets hot does it take quite a while to 'calm' down
4) can you think of anything i.e. taking a drug, change in diet, weight gain, that may have occurred just prior to symptoms appearing
5) do you suffer from any other conditions that affect the ectomodermal parts of your body i.e. teeth, skin, central nervous symptoms, bones?
6) does alcohol, spicy food and going from a cold to a hot environment trigger the redness?

Again these questions seem quite random and you will probably answer 'no' to most of them but I am not totally convinced that your symptoms aren't keratin related due to the fact your body KP is still bad


I have both the above conditions mentioned above so if I can help in any way please feel free to ask!

PS: If you feel comfortable it may help if you could add a photo to this thread (with eyes blocked out)

Hi Anne..thanks for the insight, i will definately do some research on those conditions. As far as your questions;

1)I am of scottish descent, and before this whole issure i did have fair skin.
2)Nobody has had this overheating/redness problem, at least that i am aware of. I do get my KP from my mothers side of the family though.
3)Once my face does start to get hot/red it actually won't calm down without me cooling it down. If i don't sit in front of a fan or have the air conditioning on in my car or wherever i am it will just stay that way. It won't calm down on it's own.
4)The only change i can think of is a little bit of weight gain, maybe 10-15 lbs or so over the past year or so. I believe that this redness issue was happening before any weight gain. I am not on any drugs and my diet is fairly consistent.
5)The only other issue i've had is acne. I suffered from mild to moderate acne since i was 17 or so up until maybe a year ago when i finally got it under control (and then i get this great redness problem!! lol)
6)All of those things definately affect it. I wouldn't say trigger it, because i could sit in a normal temperature room or be outside on a mild day and i still get hot and red. When i drink alcohol i can feel my face getting hotter as well as with spicey foods.

I thought i would add something else that i forgot to mention before that may be connected with the overheating. It's kind of gross but over the past two years, about the same time as this redness problem started to arise, i have noticed myself sweating a lot more than usual. Doing anything, even stuff around the house like dishes or vacumming, seems to make me sweat. I would say that it may be classified as excessive sweating. Gross i know lol, but maybe it's connected with the overheating?

Maybe if it's not kprf or related to my kp it can be treated, so i am defiantely going to make a doctors appointment.

I'll also try to post some pics

Thanks for your thorough answers - the reasons for the questions were:
1) it is documented that people of celtic origin tend to get keritinizations disorders more however with the variety of nationalities on this site I am not sure if this is entirely true (like you however I am of direct scottish descent)
2) keratin disorders are genetic however they can express themselves differently in a family (i.e. no-one is my family has what I have, just the normal KP bumps)
3) When my KPAF was active it was like my skin would get really fired up and inflamed - not like a normal blush that goes away quickly - it would take forever to calm down
4) It has been recorded that weight gain can exasperated normal KP however the it does not explain the facial redness
5) Sometimes people with the rarer keratinization disorders will have some other ectodermal defect (i.e. I was born with too many teeth in my mouth and have a 'hole' below my eye which the believe was a third tear duct)
6) those triggers I mentioned would probably causes increased redness in a lot of people so may not mean that much (however they would cause real problems with me so I also avoided them)

I still have a niggle that the redness may be keratin related and if it is - the conditions mentioned above may be something to do with it. - hopefully by looking at these you can assess if they sound like you.

With regards to the sweating - others on this site have mentioned sweating also. If you can trawl through the following web page you will find mention of sweating associated with keratin disorders (about halfway down) : Keratosis Pilaris (KP). I myself have never found this a problem though.

Best to see your Dr about it all as your symptoms are unusual and have all come about at the same time.

Let us know how you get on with your enquiries into this. I hope you find some answers soon.

Well i saw my doctor today and he thinks that it is rosecea, which I'm not sure it is or not, but I suppose i have to trust his diagnosis. He prescribed me Novo-Clonidine which i am supposed to take twice a day as well as a gel called Metronidazole. The pills are generally presicribed for high blood pressure as well as for hot flashes in females. I'll give them a try for a month and see what happens. I relly hope it works!

Well it is good that you have a diagnosis but I would suggest you do some research on roscacea to satisfy yourself that that is what you have.

Maybe even go to the roscecea forum: The Rosacea Forum - Powered by vBulletin and ask them some questions - they seem a very helpful bunch.

The reason I say to make sure you are satisfied that is what you have, is that many with keritinization disorders that effect the face, have been misdiagnosed with roscecea in the past (me included).

I'm not saying you don't have it - but you should know after checking the symptoms and photos of those with roscecea whether that fits with what you have.

wishing you all the best with your treatment
Anne

anne,
do you have any suggestions on how to tell the difference between rosacea and a kerotination disorder? That is, could you explain your experience?
I have what I always assumed was stage 1 rosacea (flushing and occasional spider-veins - usually after excercising or a hot bath) but not I wonder if it is related to my kp....o_O

Ha - I am no expert but I do know from experience many with KPRF and KPAF are often first misdiagnosed with roscecea. I imagine because roscecea is more known about by derms. Here are the differences I have picked up in my travels - but others on the forum may wish to add or amend them:

Age of Onset
Keritinization disorders usually appears/gets worse in the teenage years. Roscecea appears around 30 (?)

Location
Roscecea affects the nose making it read. KPRF and KPAF don't affect the nose. KPRF appears as small red bumps on the lower outer cheeks. KPAF affects the upper cheeks causing redness and can be accompanied with UO which affects the outer eyebrows

Additional symptoms
Kertinization disorders affecting the face will most always appear with KP simplex bumps on the body (usually upper arms and legs). However as 1/2 the population has KP apparently this may not prove anything. If you have redness in the face and no corresponding body KP you possibly don't have a keritinization disorder

Tests
A biopsy will be able to prove if it is roscecea (possibly your last resort though). (talk to petermarrero on the forum about this)

All I can suggest is that you do some research yourself. It took me 6 derms over 21 years to finally get correctly diagnosed with KPRF and KPAF. However with the internet and access to forums like this one and the roscecea forum you should hopefully be able to narrow down what you are dealling with. Dermatologists are only human and can make mistakes so don't accept a diagnosis until you feel comfortable that that is what you really have.

okay, thanks!

Looking at some of the pictures on the site, my face doesn't look like any of those. I don't have any bumps on my face (I do on my arms though), but the redness is mostly in the apples of my cheeks - very rarely, if ever, on my nose.
So...well, the jury is still out on this one for me. But I'll look into it more. Thanks again!

I am SO GLAD I found this site! My youngest daughter has an extra tear duct and we were just sitting here talking about it. I decided to google it and once I found this I realized these are the exact bumps she gets on her arms and legs. All this time I've just chalked it up to sensitive skin (and so did the doc). Now I have something solid to take to the dermatologist to confirm this is exactly the condition she has.

Hi tamisa,

Welcome to the KP Forum. I'm glad the forum was able to help you learn exactly what those bumps are on your daughter's arms. I hope you can find help for her here. Please keep in touch and tell us what you try and if it helps.

kebod

__________________
My treatment: Oil pulling daily; candida diet (minimum of carbs, no sugars); omega-3 from canned salmon and sardines; sun exposure 10-15 minutes, 3 days a week, without sunblock; program to strengthen immune system; probiotic supplements; lots of water; moderate daily exercise; exfoliation with epsom salts and sugar several times a week. KP reduced 99%. If I go "off diet" -- grains, sugars, etc. -- or stop oil pulling, KP returns.

ts16: i have the same problem, red cheeks, but no bumps, also it fells the same as the rest of the face, but hotter. In my case when im very nervous, doing sports, or something involving more blood flow. I been diagnosed by a derm with kprf, also have kp on my arms since 14, but as i got older it the kp on my arms got less noticeable maybe because i grew more hair in my back of the arms, who knows? for the heatness i can recomend you aloe vera for sun damaged skin, its awesome it really cools your skin fast! i use it whenever i fell hot. As for the redness i use the eurecin redness night cream, and when im gonna engage in an activity that i know that im gonna flush, i use the daily perfecion lotion with the green tint that covers the redness. Best regards!