Ok folks need your help here. I have a full PDL treatment booked in less than 2 weeks but had a consultation with the Veinwave chap who recommends that I cancel the PDL and give the Veinwave a go! There is no down time but would need 2 or 3 treatments before he can decide if it is working or not ! I believe this is only available in the Uk so if no one has any experience I m considering a new job as a human guinea pig . I ve had a few trial PDL spots and they do seem to help somewhat.

how does the veinwave differ to the pulse dye laser???

PS: found this post in the archives

"ELLIE12-29-2004, 10:22 AM
HI
I HAVE JUST BEEN READING ALL THE POST ABOUT THE VEINWAVE TREATMENT,,WHICH I ACTUALLY STARTED OFF ,MY SON HAS GOT THE SAME CONDITION KERATOSIS,PILARIS RUBRA FACEII, AND I HAVE TO BE HONEST THE VEINWAVE IS WORKING WONDERS ON HIS REDNESS,, AFTER EACH TREATMENT NEW SKIN COMES THROUGH,,I KNOW IT DONT SHOW THIS KERATOSIS BEING TREATED ON DR NEWMANS WEBSITE,,BUT WE HAVE A LOT TO THANK HIM FOR,,HES SUCH A WONDERFULL CARING DR,,JUST WISH WE HAD FOUND HIM YEARS AGO,, DR NEWMAN WERE THE ONE U GAVE THIS REDNESS A NAME,, AS FOR OVER 11 YEARS WE HAD SEARCHED FOR ANSWERS WHY R SON WERE BURNING UP IN HIS CHEEKS,,HOT ALL OVER, RED EARS ETC,,AND WE EVEN SAW SKIN SPECIALISTS IN MANCHESTER BEFORE DR NEWMAN,,AND THEY DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WERE, ALL I CAN SAY IS VEINWAVE HAS HELPED MY SON SO MUCH, HIS CHEEKS HAVE GONE FROM DEEP RED,,TO A PINK COLOUR NOW,,DONT FLUSH UP MUCH ANY MORE,,MAYBE THE ODD FLARE UP EVERY NOW AND AGAIN,,I HOPE U ALL FIND THE TREATMENT AND HELP U DESERVE,, BEST WISHES,,ELLIE"

Itcertainly sounds promising - it would be interesting to know if results were permanent with the person mentioned above

How much does it cost for a session? - may be well worth a try

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi again - just read this post from Rick which was made at the same time.

Gives a different view on the treatment:

Rick11-13-2004, 06:20 AM
I first went to see the originiator of Veinwave, Brian Newman, a couple of years ago. At the time he said that it wasn't worth treating my kind of redness because it wouldn't respond. The kind of redness that responds well is caused by visible surface vessels, but generalised, deeper redness is much harder to treat.

Recently, Ellie posted to this board about how effective Veinwave had been for her son who also had KPRF. I believe he has now had about 9 treatments.

So I went back to see Brian Newman and have now had 4 extensive test patches in the most affected area and I'm afraid there hasn't been any improvement. According to Mr Newman, I'm the first case he's seen which hasn't improved at all but I'm not sure if that can be true. He thinks it may be because I previously had so many laser treatments.

Anyway, it didn't work for me but it has worked for someone else on this board so it may be worth considering.

Rick


Not sure if Rick is still floating around on this board - but he certainly would be good talk to. Strange though how it is only available in the UK as it looks like it has been in use for over 2 years.

As for PDL, I know from personal experience that it definately works on damaged blood vessels. I have had two treatments with good success.

Wishing you all the best with your decision. Let us know how you get on.

How much do they cost?

Not cheap at £350 or maybe £370 for a veinwave treatment , little bit more expensive than the PDL . Thanks Anne as always for the reply . Still not sure what to do as I honestly don t expect any miracles . Mr Newmans treatment involves heating the tiny vessels under the skin , I believe he uses a grid and then a random placement of a microwave heating element with 6 or so weeks between treatments .He seemed to agree that I have kprf ( although the boundaries with rosacea are a little grey ) and says he only sees about 1 case a month so i guess we re fairly rare!

Hey I am deabtting weather to try veinwave, or pdl for my first treatement. Any suggestions??

Pdl

From my own experience and testimonies from this forum I know PDL works (as long as right settings used) so I would personally stick with the tried and true.

hi everyone....I just visited the derm at the Academical hospital of Amsterdam...He wasn't very optimistic for me and pdl..he says that what i (we) have is very rare and that there is little to nothing in the literature about this and treating it with pdl....He only had two others during his career and they had no improvement..He wants to do test patches and we made an appointment..I feel a bit sad though....I really hoped for this to work since I heard some succes stories here...

He (the derm) found it very strange that there isn't overal redness on my cheeck: only from cheekbone to chin and a bit next to my ear..the middle is milky white as my whole cheek should be Anyway he asked me to bring the settings of someone with succes with me....Jason: can you send me a private message with your settings..I saw your settings on earlier posts but I would just wanna be sure I have the correct ones...

What do u think guys??? Is there hope for my case too?

Thanks...

BTW...the doctor also noted that you cant see veins..eventhough it's red...it really is diffuse redness..do u also have this?

KPRF is treated like Rosacea with PDL, even though it is different then Rosacea, the main similar syptom is chronic redness (erythema)

PDL settings:
10 mm ( size of the laser lens or crystal
no more then 7.0 to 7.5 joules (most of the treatments I had were at 7.0 joules)
stacking method ( which is when the laser zaps then pauses and zaps again in the same spot, in every spot that is being treated.

no, there is very little info on KPRF, because most derms consider it to be just KP, it is basically but its KP on your face hence the name KPRF! and most derms se no reason to treat KP on the body I feel the same way, KP is nothing, but when its on ur face the only thing for improvement is PDL, IPL. I prefer PDL.

anyway look foward to getting roughly 6 treatmetns a month apart, so make the appointments a month apart in advance. and watch the improvment, staying at the same setting that work for every treatment, no need to increase to intentionally bruise for better results. 7.0 joules works!

u might also consider Paxil 20 mg daily (paroxetine HCL)

Im a male and had 7 PDL treatment for redness, and also had 5 IPL treatments for hair removal done on my cheeks which resulted in smooth baby bottom skin, no more hair no more KP. and it did not grow back, the last 2 treatments seems to have rid of the hair permantly, and I had a heavy course beard, but no more atleast not on my cheeks, no longer need to shave their, which basically irritates the KP because your just shaving over the KP bumps on your cheeks. I only need to shave my upper lip, chin, and under neck, where there is no KP, becuase it predominantly affects peoples cheeks, as there is more vascularity there and the facial skin is thinner then the rest of your body. PDL WORKS ! but not with just 1 or 2 treatments, thats the key. I felt hopless too after only 1 treatment. PDL treatments can be covered by insurance if your derm is willing to write up your visit as a hemingioma treatment (port wine stain).

print this page and bring it with you as a reference.

The following articles may also help:


The first is the only reference I have found in a medical article that sites PDL as being helpful to KPRF i.e.


Refer to the following site for a link to the PDF file:

http://archderm.ama-assn.org/cgi/rep...12/1611?ck=nck

NB: Patient 25 is shown to have had PDL treatment with good results

The second medical article is more comprehensive but relates to KPAF (Keratosis Pilaris Atrophicans Faciei):

This site has good before and after photos of pulse dyed laser treatment:

Keratosis Pilaris (KP)

Wishing you all the best with your treatment