I know a few of you have tried PDL (pulse dye laser treatment) for your KPRF.

Some have had noticeable permanent results others appear to have had none. As there are so many variables in this it would be great to list some of the facts so we can gauge if PDL can consistently help KPRF longterm.

Some questions I would like to put forward are (Please feel free to add more if you can think of any):

1) have you been diagnosed with KPRF by a dermatologist? (just to make sure people getting PDL actually do have KPRF)

2) Who did the treatment? i.e.- derm, beauty therapist

3) Were you referred by a professional or did you seek out treatment yourself?

4) Did you have any bruising (purple spots) following the treatment - if so approximately how long did they take to fade?

5) How long did it take for your skin to return to normal after treatment?

6) Would you say you still noticed some improvement in your skin in the months following treatment?

7) Have the results been permanent?

8) Do you know what setting the PDL was used on and the make and model used?

9) What improvement has it made to the colour (and texture if applicable) of your skin?

10) Would you recommend it as a treatment for KPRF


Note: Although I have had 2 PDL's I cannot really correctly answer the above as mine was to treat the redness from UO and AV (my KPRF had faded with age by the time of being treated in my late 30's)

Unfortunately I know of no studies for PDL and KPRF (strange as there have been two on the rarer KP variant atrophoderma vermiculata)

For future reference it would be great to get some quantative data down to show the effects of PDL on KPRF.

Hi:

I had first a test spot done by a Pulsed Dye Laser and then one treatment on what looks like KPRF.
I was diagnosed by several derms with KP but the reddening on my face I believe is KPRF not KPAV. They never said what the face reddening was specifically called. I have very fair skin, so KP is very visible on me.

I had the treatment done at the U. of Pennsylvania hospital by a Dermatologist about ten years ago.

I was referred there, though I had a small test done on my face at a different place. But, they were closed over the holidays and so I was referred to U of P who stayed open over the holidays.

I had first reddish, then purple/black bruising in splotches where the laser actually pulsed against my skin for about a week after. The laser also stings quite a bit! Then the bruises faded and revealed milky white skin beneath. Totally removed the redness, but in splotches, because the doctor said you need several treatments. I guess he didn't want the pulses so close together to completely remove all the redness. Maybe it's too harsh on your skin...I don't know.

If you get PDL be prepared to hide for about a week or so. The bruising is visible enough, you won't want to go to your job/school unless you are supremely confident. The ideal would be to get PDL during vacation time.

The results have been permanent. But, if my skin really, really gets red, from exertion say, the white spots do get red again, but then they fade back to white. So it's not like by getting PDL you are removing your bodies ability to blush. And like I said, you can still see the white marks where the laser hit, surrounded by the redness where the doctor did not pulse.

I think the PDL was by Candela, but I can't remember for sure.

The change in color of my skin was remarkable. It is like, wherever, the laser touched, my skin is normal/smooth and whatever spots the doctor missed, is still red. One note: The test spot the doctor first did, left a light brownish/blackish bruising that lasted about five years. But, that was a different dermatologist and I think he did the test spot with a higher laser setting. So I would think for women, having permanent bruises on their face would look bad. But for me as a guy, I actually don't mind so much, because the bruise actually looked better than then redness. So if you're concerned about permanent bruising maybe discuss with the doctor if you can use a lower PDL setting.

Yes, PDL is the only treatment I would actually recommend for KP treatments because it is the only thing I've ever seen that actually works. I mean, it's not some "miracle home remedy" snake oil some business it trying to sell you to make money. And so far, I have not read about any horrible side effects from laser treatment, because it is just hitting the skin's surface. I would just note that I got dangerously sick from taking an herbal treatment (don't know what herbs) that almost ruined my life for KP, but did not get sick from the lasers. I just am concerned when I read about people trying all these herbal/lotion/prescription remedies and thinking there will be no side effects on your liver/kidneys, etc. My experience is that good health with KP is actually better than losing your health trying to removal your KP. But, the laser in my opinion is the safest, scientific method of treatment.

One thing of note though, is that the PDL also seemed to have worked for hair removal. If you are a guy and like to have a beard, the PDL seems to have removed some of the hair from my face. My beard growth is now very sparse after the PDL, even ten or so years later. So men may think twice about it if they like to have a beard.

I definitely intend on getting more PDL treatments but wish to learn more about the V-Beam option before getting it done again.

Thanks KewlDood - your post supports what I thought.

It seems to get real results from PDL you have to have a high enough setting that produces some sort of bruising.

It seems that ones that have got treatment and the skin has returned to normal in a couple of days don't see any real results.

The laser used on me was also the Vbeam made by Candela.

Your post is very encouraging and supports the fact that you need to get someone to do the treatment who knows what they are doing and the correct settings to use for your redness and skin type.

Let us know how you get on with any further treatments.

Thank you KewlDood! That was the most helpful post I have seen on this forum for quite some time. I have extremely severe KPRF. It is nothing compared to the pictures people post on this forum. Mine is several shades darker than theirs and I am not exageratting. Hopefully I will find the time to get these PDL treatments, and hopefully not have any permenant skin discoloring.

Anne or Kewldood, Could you possibly provide me with some tips on choosing the proper laser surgeon? What characteristics should I look for? Thank you

I am probably not the best person to ask as the first time I had PDL there was only one dermatologist in my country who did it. The second time there were two and I chose the one nearest me.

I guess though what I would look for is someone who is familiar with using the pulse dye laser to treat redness. (both times I had the Candela vbeam model which I would recommend)

Also I would get some quotes as my first treatment cost $2,000 whereas the second only $800 NZ approx.

From being on this site a while I notice that ones who have very mild treatment don't seem to have that great results. It may therefore pay to ask with the derm doing it what type of bruising can you expect. Also ask if they have treated KPRF before.

Jason1901 has had some good results with recent PDL
refer this thread: Flushing and Blushing treated with Paxil (paroxetine)

You may like to contact him about his treatments.

regards
Anne

I am very interested in the pulse dye laser treatment of KPRF. I would disagree with the point made that its the only effective laser treatment for KPRF; the ND:Yag which targets the blood vessels rather than surface skin drastically reduces flushing. I would be cautious getting pulse dye myself because of the possible side effects and down time, but if it really somehow stops skin producing excess keratin that would be amazing. Another point, does it only stop the redness of where the laser actually hits, so you just have lots of white circles on your face? Isnt there something similar which covers a larger surface area?

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Hi

Have you had treatment with ND:yag. Sounds good in that it targets the deeper vessels that PDL can't reach. However it seems PDL works on service redness which is also good. I have had two PDL treatments and neither left 'white' circles you talked about. The face is highly vascularized and the PDL only targets some vessels so the others left still provide an even colour. There with PDL you tend to get a fading of colour ie. bright red, to light red to dark pink etc.

Hope this helps

Thanks for your post. Our KPRF facial redness is caused by excess keratin in the skin, which is why I think most lasers dont often help because its simply how our body works because of our genetics. The ND:Yag does help because it sort of "trains" your facial blood vessels to calm down and stop being so reactive. I am very interested to learn about and hear peoples personal experiences with the pulse dye laser to see why it reduces surface skin redness. The circles I were refering to were talked about earlier in this post. If your redness was at 10 (worst) before you had any treatment, what number out of 10 would you say your surface redness is at now?

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PDL covers a large surace area if you derm knows what he his doing. there are different size lens for the tip of the PDL head, 4mm, 6 mm, 8mm, 10mm, all for different size problems. Ive always had the 10milimeter filter head used with PDL for all 7 of my treatments and it covers both cheeks in about 15 mins.

PDL:
10 mm head: (for large areas treated in less time)

7.0 joules: (setting of energy used during treatment) anymore and will bruise purple, any less and wont be effective.

multiple treatments needed ( 2-6) but not exactly

My experiences will be different from most others because:

I was around 38 when I got my first treatment. By then my KPRF had subsided i.e. still some redness but no flushing and red bumps.

The areas that were a real problem were my eyebrows from UO and the tops of my cheeks from KPAF. The redness in these areas would have been between an 8-10 (i.e. bright red). After two treatments I would now could them a dark pink/light red. (Both of these keratin disorders actually scar the skin and damage the blood vessels)

I would probably need at least two more treatments to get to near normal colouring. My first treatment was done quite a few years ago now and lasers (including PDL) have progressed quite a lot. As new lasers and varying techniques are being introduced we do need to be open to better methods of treatment.

It is great seeing ones post their experiences on this forum as it is building up data regarding what works and doesn't. Let us know how you get on with your further treatments

Could anybody post 'before and after' pictures?