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Potential causes of KP

This is a discussion on Potential causes of KP within the General Discussion forums, part of the Keratosis Pilaris Topics category; By now, I think a lot of us know what KP is. Keratosis pilaris occurs as excess keratin , a ...

 
 
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:34 PM
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Potential causes of KP

By now, I think a lot of us know what KP is. Keratosis pilaris occurs as excess keratin, a natural protein in the skin, accumulates within the hair follicles forming hard plugs (process known as hyperkeratinization). We also know that exfoliation (any form) can alleviate the symptoms. But, as many of us are not born with this condition, what suddenly causes this hyperkeratinization process?

After being on this board for over a year, I've read and thought of many theories myself regarding causes of KP:

#1 - Demodex parasites

The theory behind this is that these parasites, which live inside hair follicles, cause KP in people who are genetically incapable of dealing with the parasites.

# 2 - leaky gut syndrome and food sensitivies

The theory behind this is that a leaky gut syndrome leads to sensitivities to food, (or vice versa) which leads to KP.

# 3 - hormonal

The theory behind this is that KP is caused by some hormonal imbalances, hence why some people start to develop KP during teen and some find their KP get out of control during pregancy.

# 4 - candida

The theory here is that overgrowth of candida causes people who are predisposed to autoimmune diseases to develop KP.

# 5 - Deficiencies in vitamin A

This theory is straight forward: KP is caused by deficiencies in vitamin A, hence why some people have started to and reported good results from drinking carrot juice.

#6 - Deficiencies in calcium and magnesium

Again, this theory is straight forward: KP is caused by deficiencies in calcium, hence why a lady on this board was able to significantly improve her KP by taking calcium supplements.

Please share your thoughts on the above theories, or if you have theories of your own which are not listed above, please share. Even something as sharing your background, and when you first noticed signs of KP could bring us closer to the cause, so share absolutely EVERYTHING you know about this condition. If we all put our minds, backgrounds and education together, we could potentially come up with the underlying root of KP. (who knows, someone with a degree in medicine could visit this site!)
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:41 PM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

One other theory I forgot to mention is:

#7 - Deficiencies in EFA's

Again, pretty straight forward, many believe KP is associated with deficiencies in essential fatty acids.

No comments guys? I was really hoping we could pick each other's brains here.

Personally, I'm starting to believe it's a combo of candida and demodex parasites. Initially, I didn't think too much of these parasites as they are present in virtually everyone. However, after doing some research, I'm starting to wonder if not only they aggravate our condition, but are essential to get rid of, as they create a vicious cycle. (ie. their #'s increase as our immune system weakens, but their presence further weakens our immune system hindering our ability to fight them off, thus increasing their #'s, etc)

Here's something I found on a site regarding these mites:

Quote:
Demodex Follicularum (mites) These mites are present in virtually everyone by the time a person reaches middle age. In most cases they cause no harm. Studies say that the hair loss in some may be the response that each individual has with the presence of these mites. If the body initiates the inflammatory response as it tries to reject the mites, it may close down the follicles, thus killing the mites but also killing the hair. (This would be likely since the cortisone shots are working.)
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Old 05-18-2008, 11:16 PM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

another link on demodex.
Mites might cause mighty problems - Skin Disorders - Demodex mites linked to human skin diseases | USA Today (Society for the Advancement of Education) | Find Articles at BNET.com

I think an effective KP treatment should incorporate something that helps eliminate these mites, otherwise, these mites will continue to weaken our immune system and produce bacteria, which will only aggravate our condition (ie. inflammation)

The only thing I don't really understand is that they are supposed to be most prevalent in the face, but that's not where the majority of us has KP.
So, I don't think they are the cause, just aggravating factors.
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:46 PM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

Hi Hope, I've been tied up for a few days but have been thinking about this. I had recently begun to think of some connections with info here and elsewhere. (sigh...here comes another one of my looooong posts...)

KP is often associated with atopic dermatitis, a common form of eczema. and Not the extreme scaly crusty eczema, there are many milder versions:
Keratosis Pilaris

"According to the American Academy of Dermatology, up to 40 percent of the population has keratosis pilaris....
The cause of keratosis pilaris is unknown, but it seems to be hereditary. It is also more common in overweight individuals and patients with atopic dermatitis, the type of eczema (chronic, itchy inflammation of the upper layers of the skin) caused by allergies.
In individuals with certain underlying conditions, such as eczema, keratosis pilaris often improves when the underlying disorder is addressed."

So some of us with itchy KP or hyper-sensitive skin and even others may really be battling one of several types eczema which was a surprise to me. I never thought of myself as eczemic before recently but I have come to understand that there are many forms and it doesn't just have to be the open crusty scaly eczema used in pictures.

KP was also linked with eczema in news about some recent research:
Eczema - Reporter's File - A New View on the Roots of Itchy Skin - NY Times Health

There's a lot of info in Wikipedia about eczema of course:

Eczema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and includes some of the treatments for eczema - sulphur soaps, moisturizers, avoiding soaps, UVA & UVB treatment (tanning) and avoiding food allergies and increasing Omega-3 consumption - that are helpful or are even full on cures for some people around here. (yes I posted this elsewhere...) There are descriptions of various types that certainly sound like things I've heard described around here, especially sebhorreic dermatitis.

Eczema may be associated with celiac (coeliac) disease (gluten intolerance), particularly one form of eczema, Dermatitis herpetiformis; an itchy cutaneous condition.

"Coeliac disease is caused by a reaction to gliadin, a gluten protein found in wheat (and similar proteins of the tribe Triticeae which includes other cultivars such as barley and rye)...That leads to flattening of the lining of the small intestine, which interferes with the absorption of nutrients. The only effective treatment is a lifelong gluten-free diet. While the disease is caused by a reaction to wheat proteins, it is not the same as wheat allergy....The changes in the bowel make it less able to absorb nutrients, minerals and the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K.[ 3"

fat-soluble A,D,E and K!!! The ones we all keep looking at for skin health?!?!?! and sebhorreic dermatitis is associated with a lack of biotin which is rare, but if your gut's not working, who knows? calcium malabsorption is also mentioned and calcium supplementation has helped some women around here esp after pregnancy.

In this case, many of those items you mention could be linked back digestive/malabsorption issues. (duh, just as baronster's ND knows...) Even #'s 1 and 4, demodex and candida, in my mind may just be aggravating or exacerbating or simply opportunistic infections on top of the already underlying issues such as intestinal health or lack of the gene that would otherwise keep our skin in tact and not let mites or candida get in.

In the case of sea buckthorn oil, I still have not run across research confirmation that it Kills demodex mites. It may BUT I would venture this additional possibility: That Sea Buckthorn Oil and Juice helps to heal the gut thereby improving nutrient absorption including A and E which is already present in the oil. Research in Finland has shown that SBO improves the condition of mucus membranes throughout the body and ulcers, etc... pdf:
http://seabuckthorn.com/files/sea_buckthorn%20women.pdf

Gluten intolerance could explain the success of gere123's low-carb diet when he did that = no wheat.

comments?
- bunnyday
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:19 PM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

p.s. The association between KP and eczema also makes me question whether it is possible for us to epigenetically induce eczema/KP since eczema is often from lack of a gene. If we do the lifestyle or environmental things that then trigger an epigenetic reaction where we mask the gene that SHOULD be creating the healthy skin layers, then can we undo that epigenome?
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:40 PM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

Bunnyday, you're getting very deep here, but I think we're getting somewhere. I'm sure we can undo that, and quite frankly quite possibly by simply altering our diet. I remember the video you posted a while back showing the connection between a person's diet and cancer. Baronster and Rachel have shown us that KP can be eliminated from within.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:46 PM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope4thebest View Post
I'm sure we can undo that, and quite frankly quite possibly by simply altering our diet. I remember the video you posted a while back showing the connection between a person's diet and cancer. Baronster and Rachel have shown us that KP can be eliminated from within.
I hear you, Hope4thebest.
I was also trying to make the connection between baronster's approach and the sea buckthorn and the other causes.

However, does it follow if some of us truly lack the gene that creates the healthy skin barrier (that recent eczema research find) can we make up for that lack with diet, entirely? (Elsa Zoe, I'm looking your way....)

Plus there are 40 different filaggrin mutations. Would that account for our variations in severity, color, and type of KP and for its being common but somewhat different between some of us?

There are some good posts in the following search regarding celiac disease (baronster and chris89 and others are way ahead of me on that topic) and various discussions about genetics playing a role:

Vitamin A Deficiency

- bd
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:50 PM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

oops wrong link. celiac search here:
http://www.keratosispilaris.org/sear...earchid=125452
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:06 PM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

Bunnyday,the article on eczema was quite interesting. I've never thought to KP as being caused by a genetic skin defect. But if that is the case, why do some of us only get it later on in life instead of right at birth? And why is it that moisturizing alone doesn't really seem to help? I sure hope that's not the case, because we may never really be able to cure it on our own if that was the case.

The theory that KP is caused by an inability to properly absorb/utilize certain essential vitamins/minerials which leads directly to KP, is not a bad one, especially considering that a weak system could prevent proper absorption; however, when you think about all the people who are malnourished all over the world who don't have KP, it becomes difficult to see a really strong connection between the two. Therefore, jacking up our intake of vitamins/minerals far beyond recommended daily intake probably won't put an end to our KP. UNLESS, what we are really deficient in is vitamin D, while the vast majority of people aren't, because they don't cover up like us and receive adequate amounts from the sun? But then, what about people who have enough vitamin D (from milk, etc) and have KP?

I guess the same applies to EFA deficiencies. Not to say that we shouldn't consume more essential fatty acids; however, I doubt that that alone is the answer to KP.

Whenever someone produces excess of something (ie. keratin in our case) or reacts abnormally to something generally harmless usually signals an allergic reaction, so recently, I've considered KP being an allergic reaction to perhaps mites??? But since usually, allergic symptoms go away, while ours don't, I've abandoned that idea. UNLESS, of course, we are constantly exposed to this substance/"allergen", (though not mites, as they have always, and will continue to be around whether we have/had KP or not) which would support Baronter's food sensitivity theory. This would make more sense. However, seeing as many of us don't develop KP at birth, if this is truly the case, while genetically inherited, this "allergic" reaction could be a sympton of something else or be triggered by something else.

Therefore, I think I will continue to believe that the underlying cause of KP is simply a compromised immune system. This could be due a variety of things including overgrowth of candida, or EVEN deficiencies in vitamins and/or minerals. And it could lead to a number of things, which could be directly responsible for KP; however, it would make sense that addressing the immune system would address kp, no?

The other thing too is that, as I've mentioned before, I'm really starting to believe that those demodex mites, which are perfectly harmless to a lot people, are directly responsible for the raised and inflammed look of KP (just like bacteria is responsible for acne), and perhaps even contribute, both indirectly and directly, to the spreading of KP, because they further weaken our immune system. Perhaps, the fact that we constantly keep covering our body could also be contributing to the spread? (ie, we create an even more ideal environment for these mites to reproduce, contributing to worsening of kp.) These mites also feed on sugar, which could explain why sugar makes our kp worse, not to mention sugar weakens immune system.

If we look back at all posts here, anything that seemed to address either one of those issues, including cutting out food that depress the immune system, consuming food that boost immune system (including food with vit a, which is an antioxidant vit), use of sulphur soap, tea tree oil, eucap(sp?) oil, seabuckthorn oil, coconut oil, etc also seemed to decrease symptoms of KP.

Dermabrasion works, because it keeps removing dead layers of skin and promote new cell formation, but what about all the bacteria and inflammation?

Sure we can continue to rely on products that contain enzymes, urea, aha, bha, etc, which help shed dead skin cells, remove excess keratin, etc, but 1) our body eventually adapts to such products rendering them useless at some point or another, 2) we are not even close to addressing the real problem, 3) we may get sick of applying them every day (or every other day) for the rest of our lives, and 4) we may suffer serious side effects later on. (eg. Increased risk of skin cancer).

Therefore, if the above theory is right, perhaps the best way to treat KP is to:
1. boost the immune system
2. kill the mites

Any thoughts?

Perhaps, we can focus all our efforts on addressing those 2?
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Old 05-28-2008, 11:20 AM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope4thebest View Post
Bunnyday,the article on eczema was quite interesting. I've never thought to KP as being caused by a genetic skin defect. But if that is the case, why do some of us only get it later on in life instead of right at birth?


Hope4, I think that's where the the epigenetics comes in. If you have the time to watch that video snippet again, I think you would note (correct me if I'm wrong) that the implications are not just for cancer but for many assumed "genetic" conditions/responses. So, when lifestyle and environmental stressors cause methyl-groups to actually block part of our genetic code, that creates the same effect later on in life as just not having that gene to start with. We may have started out life with the gene expressing itself just fine, but later on, it gets "smothered" if you will. (I'm sure no self respecting scientist would put it that way) So my thinking goes: some people lack a gene and therefore start out life with eczema, some of us develop a form of eczema later on because of this smothering. There is hope even for some "born" with it however, because mothers can also pass epigenetics to their children not just the genetic info. so you may not know until you try to undo the smothering (or MDs come up with a test we can afford.)


Quote:
The theory that KP is caused by an inability to properly absorb/utilize certain essential vitamins/minerials which leads directly to KP, is not a bad one, especially considering that a weak system could prevent proper absorption; however, when you think about all the people who are malnourished all over the world who don't have KP, it becomes difficult to see a really strong connection between the two. Therefore, jacking up our intake of vitamins/minerals far beyond recommended daily intake probably won't put an end to our KP. UNLESS, what we are really deficient in is vitamin D, while the vast majority of people aren't, because they don't cover up like us and receive adequate amounts from the sun? But then, what about people who have enough vitamin D (from milk, etc) and have KP?
Well, I'm mostly in the camp that has the opinion that "minimum recommended amounts" can be a far cry from "optimal recommended amounts" when it comes to some of these. and again, this for me goes back to the epigenetics caused by lifestyle. even if you eat all the vitamin supplements you think would help KP, if you don't then eliminate the kind of eating (white sugar and processed foods perhaps? or wheat if you have celiac?) that leads to methyl-groups blocking the strong-skin-gene that we want to start functioning again, it won't help. and people who actually DO lack the gene, well, in this case, all the supplements in the world shouldn't help them much, right? might explain how some people here can "eat like rabbits" and still not improve their skin issues. ?

Quote:
Therefore, I think I will continue to believe that the underlying cause of KP is simply a compromised immune system. This could be due a variety of things including overgrowth of candida, or EVEN deficiencies in vitamins and/or minerals. And it could lead to a number of things, which could be directly responsible for KP; however, it would make sense that addressing the immune system would address kp, no?

If we look back at all posts here, anything that seemed to address either one of those issues, including cutting out food that depress the immune system, consuming food that boost immune system (including food with vit a, which is an antioxidant vit), use of sulphur soap, tea tree oil, eucap(sp?) oil, seabuckthorn oil, coconut oil, etc also seemed to decrease symptoms of KP.

Therefore, if the above theory is right, perhaps the best way to treat KP is to:
1. boost the immune system
2. kill the mites

Any thoughts?

Perhaps, we can focus all our efforts on addressing those 2?
I think you make a good case for both of these. Part of the implication of that article on eczema is that because of a faulty skin layer, bacteria and allergens get in and overstimulate our immune systems. So I should think that things we can do to proactively support and balance our immune response would be the smart thing to do including eliminating the triggers.

My personal somewhat skeptical attitude is to lump mites and candida and topical allergens (perfume additives to soaps, etc...), subzero temps, together as things that cause our skin to build up a layer of keratin and inflammation in reaction to their presence. similar to things that trigger rosacea and other skin reactions. (I also wouldn't be surprised if someone came out and told us that mites cultivate - farm - candida, the way some ants cultivate mushrooms as a food source. wouldn't that suck? I mean, c'mon, ants "farm" and even the )

But regardless, in cases where a gene is just missing or shut-down, eliminating the irritants as much as possible including a rather too healthy population of mites, seems reasonable to me. - bd
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Old 05-28-2008, 11:33 AM
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Re: Potential causes of KP

oops, I trailed off... there's a termite that cultivates fungi also and termites are considered less advanced than ants.
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:03 PM
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Re: Potential causes of KP



BD and Hope,

You two are doing great here! I'd love to put in my 2 cents worth on building up the immune system, but I'm leaving in a few hours to catch a plane for the States. I'll be back in 5 weeks. I hope I'll be able to get to a computer regularly, but I don't know for sure.

Hope, do you mean to say that if one has KP, one has candida and mites?

kebod
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