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Well, there is something to be said for the danger in overdoing it with alpha-hydroxy acids. Especially if you are sensitive. MD Forte skin care line has some pretty strong ones (expensive) and I have used them with mostly wonderful results for evening out my facial skin tone and reducing wrinkles. But I did overdo it once and it set off the worst fever blister on my lip that I have ever had. Retin-A can also have a similar sensitizing effect - and add to that peeling like a snake shedding it's skin. (With beautiful results, though , once the peeling is over.) Unfortunately, for us KP sufferers, so many things don't work at all that many will do almost anything to rid ourselves of the problem and alpha hydroxy acids are one of the most effective treatments and the one most often recommended by dermatologists. Derms usually recommend 12% lactic acid lotion twice a day, but 15% glycolic is probably similar. These acids don't seem to work for extended periods for everyone. I remember using Lachydrin 12% for a more than a year when it suddenly did not work for me anymore. I have heard other people complain of similar results. Personally, I have found steroid ointments (prescription only) to be the most effective for me - but they are also dangerous to use on a long term basis - so I don't. People coming here, are looking for others to tell them what works and what doesn't. Turquoise is sharing what has worked for her. That said, everyone needs to weigh the risks vs. benefits of any treatment they choose to undertake for themselves, and yes, they are not without risk. I've read on these boards about people scrubbing themselves with pumice stones til they bleed-- inviting infection and people making their own, somewhat scary formulas using liquid wart remover and other concoctions. All interesting - but not something, I personally, want to try. If I were going to start an alpha-hydroxy acid regimen, I would start with the lower percentages and work up only after using for at least 2 weeks, and then settling on the lowest effective percentage. This is how they are recommended to be used by dermatologists. More, is not always better. And definately protect the skin, now made more vulnerable, with sun screen, or stay out of the sun altogether.

If you need to apply another moisturizer over the acid-containing lotion - you would definately apply the acid-containing lotion first - let it absorb into your skin for a few minutes and then apply a plain moisturizer over it, if you feel it is still necessary. The acid-containing lotions are moisturizers too, so you very well may not need it unless you are extremely dry. The other reason not to do it is that if you try too many things at once and then have problems, or even great results - then you don't know for sure what created it. I try to pick a simple regimen and stick with it for at least 2 weeks before deciding to add or delete something in it. I do not agree, though, that it will dilute the acid if you apply the acid lotion first and let it absorb. The reason I think this is because of how MD Forte recommends the use of their facial products. The acid lotion always goes on first, allowed to absorb, and then the plain moisturizer next.

Good luck to you. After I finish the bottle of Amlactin 12% I have now, I will probably order the Neostrata 15% and try it. I have tried other Neostrata products and have found them to be reasonably effective and non-irritating. As a matter of fact, my facial regimen is the Exuviance line, made by Neostrata and I love it.

I believe that applying right after the shower is more effective, whether or not Turquoise is doing that. I was told by my doctor that when applying Retin-A, for instance, that if you get too much irritation from it - you should try waiting 15 minutes after washing before applying it. There is something about bathing that causes the skin to more readily absorb these things. Your skin also aborbs some of the water from the shower or bath also and applying a moisturizer right afterwards helps to seal that moisture into your skin. I apply all lotions immediately after towel drying.

Turquoise, your pics are incredible.

Now that your KP has remitted, do you still apply the AHA regularly? Do you still have to do anything to maintain your skin and make sure the KP doesn't pop up again?

Thanks!

Get those mini-skirts out girl - do it for those of us who are still suffering!! lol - P.S. you have no excuses now :-)
I'm going for photodynamic therapy this month which will strip the layer of my skin off in one go I think.. If that doesn't work I will definitely follow your regimine. Thanks for letting others know.

Hi Turquoise

Your results are fab. I have suffered with KP on my arms for years and all I got prescribed was steroid cream, which did not work in the long run. I have started using the Neostrata AHA 8 oily skin and have noticed a difference already. i am intrigued that the 15% seems to give better results,however, I can not get hold of it. Do you have a website that I could look order from?

Kind regards

Pauline

Thanks!

I have to admit, a lot of the Before and After pics that get posted around here are rather inconclusive/subject to interpretation. I wanted to make sure mine were clear.

Oh yes. Every day. I use the 15% on everything once a day, and the 20% on the bad spots every day. Still trying to eliminate the dots completely. They are very faint (some days I can't even find them), but still a bit annoying.

The KP will just come back in force if you don't constantly stay on it.

Also, it's getting to be winter here and I don't know how much I'll have to use to keep the KP away during the cold weather.

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First off, I'd like to send the biggest hugs and lots of congrats and love to Turquoise- I'm so thrilled for you that you found something that worked! I'd also like to thank you profusely for taking the time to post what worked for you. It is truly appreciated.

I do want to echo the legitimate concerns of a previous "nay sayer." When reading this thread, the word that kept popping into my mind was "irresponsible." That poster took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm going to preface my (hopefully constructive) criticism by saying that I do currently use the 15% AHA Neostrata lotion and have been quite pleased. However, even though I have raging KP (literally EVERYWHERE on my body, except palms and soles of feet), even the 8% oily skin solution literally tore me up.

I have no idea what my sensitivity is to the stuff, but apparently others share it. And it doesn't have a darn thing to do with the scaliness of the skin (at least not for me anyway), believe me, while some areas are worse than others, in the worst areas, literally every last pore is totally clogged with that white stuff. My entire body is spiny! Another poster mentioned "burning" sensations. I believe she's referencing the horrid "itch" that sometimes accompanies truly heinous kp.

That said, when I first started with the stuff, I was all "talley ho" with it on the reports of others. Used strong formulations (though I did start low and work up a bit), multiple times a day, etc. I actually did see fabulous results. Noticable immediately, tolerable skin within a week, and kp more or less under control within 2 weeks. I was generally pleased.

But sweet Jesus- I truly wish I had listened to the signals my body was sending instead of heeding the advice of others who insisted that persistence was key. After only a few days, I could see gobs of skin sloughing off while I was applying the stuff (sorry for the nasty visual!). Redness, swelling, stinging, in no time, I had to drink a glass of wine just to get the stuff on, and was using ice packs for the swelling.

It was terrible- and that was on the spots with KP! Heaven help the few areas (ie, behind knees, inside elbows, etc.) that wore more or less delicate, untainted skin.

Ultimately, I opted for laser hair removal (to be fair, I swim and have fair skin/dark hair, so I'm a "perfect candidate") and now use a mild AHA lotion once in the evenings and use something stronger as needed (ie, a couple days in a row, every few weeks) without anything more than some tolerable stinging at application.

My point is, YES, there are people with the most awful cases of KP there are who for whatever reason are hyper-sensitive to this AHA stuff. I'm telling you, if I had followed your advice of "just be persistent, keep using it for 5+ months!" I probably wouldn't have legs anymore...or worse. On the one hand, it really did work lightening fast for me. But in my case, it's not because I don't have awful KP, it's just that I am VERY sensitive to the acid formulations for some reasons.

Many of the people who quit the other AHA formulations quit because they found the side effects intolerable. At the risk of coming across like a jerk, you don't know a thing about their side effects, or why they decided to quit. If they experienced anything resembling what I did, heck ya I'd quit if I had an awful rash, swelling, etc. and no noticable change! Heck, I quit and my KP was no longer apparent in anyway to the casual observer, and I was generally pleased with the results (sans negative side effects, of course ).

So yes, I do think your cavalier attitude is irresponsible- at the very best. There are those of us with horrid KP, who, for whatever reason, have to be extremely careful about using chemicals of any kind. You seem to have decided that this is a cure for anyone, and anyone who doesn't have success is either not trying hard enough, or just doesn't have KP "that bad."

I'm here to tell you, you are 110% WRONG.

That said, I applaud your effort, and I think this could help a great many people. I'm not saying that it won't. What I am saying, is that this is dangerous stuff, and that warning should be front and center in the first post, not burried down somewhere on the third page. That it's strong and dangerous shouldn't deter anyone, it's just like any medication: if it's strong enough to help you, it's strong enough to hurt you.

But please, it is terrible to post that individuals use this product for months in the hopes of seeing results, post your minimal side effects as the most awful thing anyone could experience, and represent that if they just stick with it, they'll be fine.

Like I said, this could really hurt people (I'm the voice of experience ). We're all desparate and will try anything, sometimes past the point of good judgement and reason. Your posts make it much more difficult for someone who has never tried these products to determine where "the line" is.

So......sorry- just had to get that off my chest. I really do appreciate your post, but as someone who has been burned (literally, hahaha!) by these acid formulations, I did want to post that sometimes, even those with really bad KP just can't use them (at least not like some of the others here) and to remind everyone to listen to their own judgement.

Which leads me to my next question- how do you manage to keep that stuff off the area behind your knees? If I apply if before bedtime, even if I wear jammie pants, I can't keep it from ending up there...or all over the sheets (yuck!).

Oh- and any tips on how to make that stuff taste better (sorry!). All of these acid formulas smell and taste nasty...and it's interfering with my (and more appropriately, my husband's, hehehe) sex life. Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks again Turquoise. Truly, no daggers for you and I hope you don't take this as a personal attack. I just saw a very real need for balance and thought I should post my experience. I'm not knockin' ya at all- sorry I ****ped on your thread.

You're letting your husband LICK 20% AHA acid off you?!

2 other questions:

1) You say you are pleased with the results you got, sans negative effects. So are you saying that your KP has completely gone away and that you don't have to do anything else to keep it at bay?

2) Did the acid leave any scars? How long did it take for your skin to recover from the mis-hap ?

Thanks.

Uh, LOL. I have said REPEATEDLY to avoid *anything* that causes pain or irritation. I have said it about a hundred times, it feels like, and specifically to entirely avoid putting the stuff on sensitive skin like behind the knees.

There has been nothing unclear about what I've said regarding this. Do read my posts more carefully before you call me "irresponsible" and suggest that I am encouraging people to damage their skin.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
If you get any redness or pain on the KP areas, you need to reduce application and go down to lower percentage, or stop until the areas heal. (How many times have I said that??)

This is wonderful !

I find a cure for KP, go on and on about how to use it, WHEN to stop, WHAT to avoid, and detail all the potential hazards of it, INCLUDING pictures of the potential damage it can cause.. And what do I get??

FLAME.

Here is an excerpt from my VERY FIRST post at this forum:

And from the pictures thread:



For you people who are adults and can be responsible for yourselves and can handle using an FDA approved product as directed, more power to you and I wish you success. Read the bottle. Go for it. Follow the directions. Keep at it for a few months and see what happens.

For you ****** who can't read (or refuse to), or will continue putting acid on your skin after it's already raw (!!), there is nothing to be done for you. You see, I assume that the people here have common sense and are not ****** enough to do that and so don't need to be told, but I guess you do.

So here you go:

If your skin is raw, bloody, or painful, do NOT put acid on it.

Or Pepper. Or lemon juice. And don't take sandpaper or a cheese grater to it.

Also, don't run with scissors, don't mix bleach and ammonia, don't drink the stuff under the sink, don't poke knives into your eyeballs, don't chew barbed wire, etc. There is a whole long list of things that I guess you need to be told, and when things go bad you will blame whoever is around rather than take responsibility.


I understand now why those people disappear after they find their cure.
You know those people who are here for months or years and then vanish?
There ARE cures for KP. Great ones. But they fall on deaf ears, on a torch-bearing mob.

lmao

Greatest reply ever.

Look, don't go away. I ordered the AHA yesterday. No risk, no reward. Your pics convinced me. I'd rather take a small risk at damaging my skin (which I don't think will happen, because my KP is severe and I'm ONLY going to put it on the KP) than live with the life-long safety of KP-covered skin.

It does seem like everytime somebody posts something that says "This worked great for me!", a dozen other people will pop up to say "well i'm happy it worked for YOU, but KP is different for everybody, blah blah" without even trying what the person reccomended. It's like a state of learned helplessness.

I'm going to prefac