Hello,

No, this hasn't been covered on the site, because I don't know much about it. Basically, because I have had total results with Glycolic, I haven't needed to explore other acid options. I also have limited funds and, because I am ill, limited energy to devote to research of products, so I have not done any trials with BHA, and its effect on KP is largely unknown at this point.

The only Salicylic acid product that has been used widely is the prescription only (?) Salex, which I think comes in 5-8% and some people at the forum have tried. (That is an issue; Can you get it online at potency without an Rx? As a lotion, not a cleanser? And if so, where?) It does appear that 5% is the minimum strength for any expectation of result, and some people have claimed some clearing with it. However, to my knowledge there are no photographs to prove it, and it has not been specifically tested against glycolic acid. Like everyone else, I have read that BHAs supposedly work deeper in the follicle because of their smaller size molecularly (?), and so are theoretically more effective, but as any follicle treatment, I doubt it would be very effective if not applied to an open or partly-open follicle.
So, one would still need to exfoliate physically first to remove the blockage, and then use the acid as you would glycolic, to clear the deeper keratin in the follicles that is causing the red dots. I really don't know if Salicylic alone, applied to high bumps, would have much effect. Even the really strong Glycolic 20 is often not strong enough to get through that hard buildup, and I think the Salicylic 8 or even higher would not be as potent as that.

It could be that Salicylic could work better than glycolic if it were used appropriately in the same situation. But it just hasn't been attempted by anyone. I do get questions about it periodically and I think some people are doing limited trials with it, but I have not heard back from them.

The only experience I have with Salicylic is in the standard 2% formulation available as an acne treatment. I use it in the St. Ives scrub to treat blackheads, usually a couple times a week. It does work well to keep them under control, but I don't know if it's the actual acid doing anything, or just the physical scrubbing. It would be great to know if Salicylic could be used as a maintenance treatment, even, but I also don't know how its price compares to glycolic.

Hey Turquoise, What's your expectation in the fall? dryer weather = more KP management?
and speakng of dietary issues, I had a major allergy attack on Sunday night. My whole body was itchy, I was using my pasta scoop to itch everywhere (maybe exfoliated a bit since it's metal with 6 or 8 claws.) because of that episode, my skin was really touchy yesterday and I stepped back one day only to some 5%. Today, I used the regular amLactin and it feels a little creepy crawly but not bad. I'm also sitting here with my sea buckthorn oil in my mouth for an OP cause I got a summer cold! argh!
so, if I were to drop the lactic and just exfoliate again for a while, what do you recommend for a time'off of acid? or don't you, could I just switch if I feel I need to scrub some layers off?
Thanks - bd

The itchiness... If it was mostly on the areas that are getting your AHA treatment, it means you are overexfoliated and is a normal side effect. If it's all over your body (independent of treatment boundaries), it sounds like some kind of allergy as you suggested. I have never heard of that being directly caused by topical AHA, and it seems unlikely that the treated areas could somehow affect your whole body. Have you been doing anything else treatment wise that you have any ideas about as far as causing this kind of side effect? Has it ever happened before? Could it be something you're ingesting?

Since you've been scratching, your skin is probably very sensitive now and I think you should let it rest for a couple days and not do anything to it, just to see what happens and give yourself some time to figure out what is going on. This is a very unusual turn of events.

In your case, I think you should have stayed with dermabrasion longer to begin with, anyway, so I think it would be advisable to get off the AHA, let your skin rest for a week or so, and then try picking up the dermabrasion again a few times a week. I really think you could benefit more from it, and it is a sure fire way to exfoliate more, condition your skin more, and get it used to treatment without causing any possible chemical side effects.
If you only did it for 5-6 weeks, I don't think your skin has adjusted to your treating it, generally. Especially since you know it is sensitive, it's logical that it will need more time than the average person, and even the usual case is about a two month treatment.

I'm sorry if you answered this before, but did you say you had tried a low potency *glycolic* acid and had bad side effects with it? What if you are allergic to lactic acid, and that is what is causing this?

Thanks for such a quick reply Turquoise, it was in all areas of my body including my stomach and back where I'm not using lactic acid.

Since I get smaller reactions like this to strawberries and EVOO (wonderful for some, not for me...), I assume either it was something I ate at a neighbor's house that day or dinner that night. It could've even been EVOO, I didn't ask cause a couple of people brought foods. I just kind of live with this occassionally, I'm not going to flip out to isolate it cause my usual diet doesn't set this off and I don't go into anaphylactic shock. I just drop a benadryl so I can sleep.

I can also have a reaction like this to clothing washed in regular detergent as opposed to allergen free so it could possibly be something topically that happened. I was wearing my usual clothes washed in All free and clear but the gnats and pollens were out in full force that evening when I was doing my chores so a topical reaction is also possible.

yeah, this seemed like a fine time to ask about laying off and doing dermabrasion again. hmmm... maybe I'll do a mild baking soda scrub in a bath today, that's a good skin soother...

Well, since this also happened in areas not being treated with lactic, I don't think it's that likely but I _do_ like glycolic better. an 8% glycolic is strong enough for my face, chest and back which have acne-like KP. Haven't used it on my limbs but I should give it a go.

I don't really have a lot of bumps considering this episode. usually it would set off patches of KP but I only got about a dozen scattered randomly about. Thanks for the input - bd

Good descrip of itchies:
Itchy, itchy legs! - might be off-topic

Ahhh, I see. Well, that is good news, that it is probably independent of your treatment. However, it sure has the potential to interfere with it. Any kind of itching can; when I was in active treatment and would get itching as a side effect from medication or whatever, the KP treatment areas would be much more itchy and I would scratch them to pieces and then have to skip.
What I have heard about lactic (and the other AHAs) from people is that they are less effective in terms of results, but cause ALL of the usual AHA side effects. So, it is an ideal way to maximize discomfort and problems and minimize actual improvement and skin clearing !
I really think Glycolic would be better for you, but I haven't found a good and affordable lotion in a gentle percentage.
Have you considered getting a potent Glycolic product and just dilluting it? That would be affordable and easy to do. If you got the Neo brand in 15%, you could dillute it with equal amount of moisturizer (whatever kind is good for you, even something with aloe or whatever is soothing) and get about a 7% potency result. Or mix in a bit more and it would knock it down to 4-5%, if you're worried about it.
The bottle is around $25, but this would at least double the value and last a long time, since that bottle is 6.8 ounces. If you mixed it in your hand each time and used some drops of water, you could easily get it well-combined so as to avoid any "hot-pockets," and it would go a long way on your legs or arms.
Given all you are going through here, you deserve better and faster results, and lactic is the worst and slowest way to get there. If you decide to hop off acid and go back to dermabrasion for a while, this would be the way to go when you come back to it.

Hi everybody,
here are some pictures of my legs that I'm not embarassed to show anymoreThe first one was taken on january 1,the second on march 26 and the last one today.I hope this helps.


http://clearblogs.com/uploads/z/zvajza/24226.jpg

http://clearblogs.com/uploads/z/zvajza/24001.jpg


http://clearblogs.com/uploads/z/zvajza/36110.jpg

amazing AYNAS ! now if only arms responded as well to the treatment as legs do. 4 months of dedicated application twice a day got me really smooth arms that were still covered in red dots. oh well, it's great to see when it works for others though!

Turquoise:

I have been using salicylic acid (%25) on my arms for two weeks.
I made a mixture myself: vaseline + salicylic acid+ nivea baby oil (balmond & wheat oil). It is really very powerful but only to sensitive parts like back of arms, palms etc. The skin is peeling very well and fast on those areas. Coming to other parts, no much improvement for now (surprising). I use it daily (i tried twice first and used loofah -very gently- , then came irritation. i don't use loofah any more, and do it once, now it is ok. I also got a burn cream from pharmacy and used to those irritated area, in a very short time it was ok.

People may think %25 is too much. Before using the mixture i apply moisturizer (nivea) to my skin (because it is still very dry),then mixture and finally wrap my arms with strecth film (to make sure the skin absorbes it very well). There is also an interesting point: When i sweat, after the sport, my upper arms peel better.

Anyway, we will see if it works. I will inform you.

Great Job Aynas! Way to go! woo hoo! your legs look GREAT!

Thanks I owe it all to Turquoise,she rocks!

Turquoise! I have been at your site, reading away, and I want to give you a warm "Thank you" for researching KP to the degree you have. I will definitely be trying the dermabrasian/AHA route, and I'm psyched about the dermabrasian because I tried JUST AHA last year with minimal results. I am not sure you had written about the dermabrasian at that time or not... I tried it in June & July.

Anyway, what you wrote about KP affecting areas covered by layers of subcutaneous fat is, I think, very interesting. If you search my post history, you'll see that I made posts correlating exercise and perhaps sweating to a downgrade in KP, because I observed that ALL the athletes I have seen who have clearly exposed skin, such as boxers and mixed martial arts fighters, do NOT have KP.

I also remember that when I was on a strict exercise regimen and ate a totally clean diet, I noticed my KP less. It didn't seem to be as bad. My bodyfat was much lower and muscles denser.

Is it related to TEMPERATURE, though? I am not sure. I think that there may be a correlation between the fatty tissue and the KP, but I don't think it is because of temperature levels. The fatty areas are the WARMEST. This is why someone can have "cold hands" but rarely do they have "cold hips." The fat acts as an insulator for heat. This is also why fat people get overheated more easily than thin people. It's why seals have so much blubber. They are mammals, like us, and require lots of blubber to survive in harsh, cold temperatures. Right now I am sitting in an air-conditioned room. When I clasp my palm over my upper arm (which has bad KP), the skin radiates much more heat than when I clasp my fingertips, which are cold.

So I think your theory IS onto something, but a bit flawed. As I mentioned, I think there IS a correlation to the fatty tissue, but I think it has to do with the tissue itself rather than temperature.

I just have to ask, did you do the prerequisite 6 to 8 weeks of exfoliation first as described on Turq's website? - bd

I have been using the micrdermabrasion crystals everyday for about 5 weeks and have not seen any results. If I don't see any results after 8 weeks, should I move to the AHA step?