hey, not to offend turqouise, but has anyone ordered the 20% dcl lotion from turqouise, just wondering as nobodys actuallu posted about it. like i sed i dont mean to offend anybody, i just have a hard time trusting anyone with my money as im so broke right now i cant afford to lose anything

grr.. i just got my refund notice from skinstore... so is the neostrata 15% really being discontinued? or just at that website???

On cleanser to use, I have no idea.. I usually just use a regular body wash. I'm planning to switch to one that will be moisturizing. I don't know whether you would get results faster or better if you used a cleanser that also has AHA in it (?), but I would think it would be much milder because you end up washing it off. Not like a lotion that sits on your skin, where AHA 20 is quite strong, but in a cleanser that rinses, I wonder what effect it would have.
When I was in active treatment, I would often just leave my legs alone during showers, to avoid washing off the AHA lotion.
I have hardly shipped any AHA, because most people who order from me are doing dermabrasion right now. I have shipped a *ton* of that, most of it overseas.
It's just being discontinued (or whatever the hell they're doing) at that site. It's widely available at other online skin places, but it's more expensive. The refunds are not a good sign. I'm hoping it's a temporary thing (how can they axe a product that is obviously selling so well??). It makes no sense.

Retin A seems to be a big question mark at this point. Some people have great results with it (me included) and others not, and it comes in enough formulations and percentages to be very confusing. It also causes gnarly side effects (and poor results) if you get it even a little too strong. I do think it could be a good treatment for a lot of people, if only the correct potency could be worked out...
I'm experimenting with 0.1% right now. (It's WAY strong!)

Lactic acid, urea, and similars... Very poor track record there.

I think you could try the two pound jar they sell at the site, and that would be plenty to get started with. You can always order more later when you get some practice with it and get an idea of how much crystal you use during each treatment. The severity and long-time effect of KP, like you have on your arms, means that a full course (two months) would be a good idea on those areas. But on your more recently affected places, like calves/legs, will be more minor and may only need a few weeks, as you suggested.
I recommend that people do dermabrasion for as long as they are willing to, because it can improve your skin even more, the longer you do it. But two months is usually a good amount for even very severe KP. If you wanted to do it a couple weeks beyond that, there would probably be benefit, but see where you're at when that time comes and what you feel like doing.

I have heard that the PM system here doesn't work for anyone.

thank u, thank u turquoise for the SPEEDY reply! i will be ordering the crystals tonight! i am oh so very hopeful for the results...crossing my fingers!!! and yes, i will run the full 2 month course of dermabrasion (if not a wee bit longer...just to make certain i'll be silky smooth before i start AHA treatmt). hope i won't have a huge wait time for the crystals to come in!

Good for you! I think you'll be pleased with the results. The feedback from this has been coming in lately and most people have had great results and are very happy with it. It just takes persistence.

I have a question.... does sometimes it seems to be almost clear and then you see a fe red dots come back? why is that? could it be my diet? could it be I need to eliminate sugar completely? also I think the vicodin may have made the kp worse (no. im not a druggie... i had a broken tooth, a bad dentist, who filled it like a cavity and then it got infected and I had to have an emergency root canal which cost me a fortune! and I have been taking vicodin for the pain and eatin more sugar... ) it only seems to be around those times. otherwise I have *clear* spots..... yes im doing a little dance right now CLEAR spots!!! but Im worried about the other red dots coming back.... : (

All this sounds really promising, however, I am a little concerned about the sensitivity to the AHA. I actually just ordered Paula's Choice BHA 2%. Haven't gotten it yet but am anxious to try it.

So sick of the way my arms look and now it is spreading to my back. My upper legs also look pretty digusting. Tried getting in the sun but don't want to trade kp for skin cancer.

Hmm.. I haven't noticed that Vicodin makes KP worse on me.. There are a lot of theories about KP and diet, but there has been no documented correlation. It could be the case for you... However, the red dots should stay away as long as you continue with treatment. I am concerned about your use of AHA 10. (Are you still using just that?) That is a milder product that I would not think would be strong enough to handle serious KP. Even for maintenance, AHA 15 is usually necessary. If you have bumps coming back, it might be just because your chemical treatment is not strong enough. In your situation, I would go to Greatskin and get the Neostrata 15 and 20 very soon. It would be awful if your bumps came back because of the weak AHA and then you would have to do dermabrasion all over again. The 10% is meant to be a starter product for sensitive skin, not a long term thing.

It could be too, that you did not stay with the dermabrasion long enough in the beginning...

I don't know if anyone has tried it for a long enough time to see if it really works. It sounds a little weak for dealing with KP, as 2% is a standard amount for lots of common skin diseases, and it's even found available at regular retail stores. (For comparison, I think Salex - which is a standard prescription for KP - has like 6%?)
It's also a pretty expensive treatment, not practical for a lot of people.

Mine has now spread to my sides, since I gained weight.
If you're concerned about sensitivity, the AHA 10 is the way to go at first. Also, dermabrasion tends to accustom skin to exfoliation and often takes care of sensitivity issues. The main thing with KP is that the skin has spent years/decades completely covered in dead layers and has had no exfoliation, and is not used to having to "re grow" afterward, so irritation tends to last.
With dermabrasion, it is such a gradual process and less irritant than AHA, so I would not worry about the AHA until you get there, because it may not even be a problem. By the time you are done with dermabrasion, your skin will be totally different - smooth and of normal thickness, almost completely exfoliated, and it will be trained to expect regular exfoliation and to respond to it - nothing like what you're used to, and I doubt it will react badly to it as it does now.

Besides that, AHA 10 is quite gentle, (if your skin is just generally sensitive to things) and even the 15 is not bad.
This treatment is very skin-friendly if you do it correctly. There are a lot of horror stories about it, but I have yet to read one that is not due to improper use of product, not reading directions, or straight *abuse* of product...

I actually have a dermabrasion kit that I use on my face every once in a while. I do NOT have kp on my face, however, and I never thought about using it on any other area. I have been just using a loofah sponge and really scrubbing. That just seems to make it even more red and ugly, though.

I've been checking this site from the beginning. I've had pretty good success with this method. i never started with microdermabrasion. but to completely rid my KP i've started. the mixing is the most work-intensive part. could i just make a big batch (with lotion) and use it over a couple of days instead of making a new one for each shower?

Loofah and pumice sponge tend to cause irritation because you have to use so much pressure - especially for loofah. Dermabrasion is nothing like that. If you get irritation, it's because you've done it for too long a session and unknowingly polished away too many layers of skin. So it is actually *too* effective if you don't pay attention to the time you do it and the sensation you're getting.
Loofah and similar methods will actually cause irritation by s****ing off the bumps and making the skin raw from pure friction. They are harsh, especially on old or very bumpy KP. They do exfoliate, though, so they can reduce KP in people who can tolerate the feel of it.

Hmm... It shouldn't be that much of a hassle. It doesn't even have to be "mixed" to work. Some people use the crystals just with water, and it works fine that way, too. When I did it, I put the crystals in a big salt shaker (one with big holes) and would just sprinkle it right on my skin, then put a little moisturizer on my palm and start rubbing. That would make a strong treatment (try using less moisturizer) and it's not important what actual ratio you use. The moisturizer is just there to make things more slick, so you can easily rub over the skin, and to keep the crystals in a suspension so that they don't fall off your skin so easily.
I get the feeling people are worrying about whether the stuff is mixed enough, how much they are using, etc. These things don't really matter; it is a very flexible treatment and you can use whatever ratio and time period suits you. The only thing to remember is that the weaker your mix is, the longer you will have to rub it in. Sometimes I would just use a tiny bit of lotion, and then you only have to rub for maybe five seconds on each area, to get the rough, tingling feeling, and then you can move on.

thanks so much, Turquoise!!!

I've followed this thread from the very beginning and am so grateful for all that you've done.